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September 13, 2006

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drrw

Dave,

I disagree with the approach your team proposed.

1) PureEdge is dead technology - it takes 5Gigs of RAM single threaded per server to process the proprietary binary formats. That's a scaling nightmare. It needs replaced ASAP to enable broader access and allow GGov to scale.

2) We need open technology that is vendor neutral so the entire grants community can easily integrate forms and rules and develop community resources. Shared forms technology also fosters easy re-use.

3) Adobe forms is not flexible enough to do that - and in any case Adobe is killing that product in favour of AJAX. So GGov have made the same mistake again - selecting aging technology that is sole source and lacks flexibility and limited # of expert developers available for support /extensions.

4) Layered approach is essential - this is how the W3C designed XML - but vendors do the opposite - lock you into a single blob of technology that they own. What that does is limit extensiblity - for example - how does Adobe forms support the new single sign-on process? A layered approach allows you to plug-in components seamlessly from providers and services. That is also the message of web services and SOA.

Dave

Thanks, Dave, for your thoughtful comments. I don't disagree that e-forms technology is a relic-in-the-making. There will always be a place for it, of course, but other technology has already overtaken e-forms in many scenarios.

I don't think Grants.gov is ready for an AJAX-based approach. As you note, Adobe is presently moving towards that model -- but it's not there yet, and Grants.gov isn't about to become an early adopter. Politically, that simply wouldn't fly.

One might also argue the case (as Rob Fay has) for a Java client, or for XForms, or for many other technically-feasible-but-flawed approaches. We took the position that preparing for the future was most important, which is why we focused much of our attention on the data brokering architecture that would enable any number of forms technologies to be used (e-forms, web forms, XForms, AJAX-XML forms, etc.).

I don't envy the job of those in charge of Grants.gov. No choice they will make will ever be free of nay-sayers (like me, ho ho!). I do feel, though, that there are strategies that could be adopted today that would silence or at least placate many of them.

Ray Blaak

> 3) Adobe forms is not flexible enough to do that - and in any case Adobe is
> killing that product in favour of AJAX.

Adobe dumping forms in favour of AJAX? I don't think so. PDF is just too important a component of anything to do with a legal document. Also, as far as I know, Adobe's movements in the rich internet space come in the form of Flash/Flex, not AJAX as such, although Flex can certainly work with AJAX enabled content. At any rate, Flex and AJAX are front end client technologies, and even with them once still needs a backend document processing solution like LiveCycle.

Arni

Forget Adobe PDF. The PDF viewer has the same issues as puredge. Thick client.

Think simple HTML e-forms like Cardiff's cool LiquidOffice

Dave

Arni, the boat has already sailed and the Adobe forms are in full-force migration right now. I'm intrigued by the new e-forms products, such as LiquidOffice, which are striving for a more standards-based approach, but are they really mature enough for deployment on the scale of Grants.gov?

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